Most people, when made aware that they are visiting someone of importance, attempt to dress their best. It’s a token of respect and a recognition of the position the important person holds. And so if we consider ourselves visiting God in a holy place of worship, that will help to provide context as to why dressing respectfully ought to be done.
Sarah, this is a difficult topic for discussion because it puts people on the defensive before the first sentence about modesty is even uttered. You did a great job putting it all in proper context. I and my family wear our "Sunday best" to church each Sunday because it is part of our worship of God. We are not showing off or trying to look good for other attendees. We want God to know that we love, honor, and respect Him. He gave us this earth and our very lives. The least we can do is dress appropriately as we worship Him. Secondly, your words concerning bathing suits and other day-to-day apparel is right on the mark. I love to see beautiful women who dress modestly. There is an air of mystery associated with clean and modest clothing. Otherwise, they are just advertising themselves, as you pointed out. There is so much in our modern lives that is vulgar and animalistic. When I grew up in the 70s and 80s, you would almost never see young women with tattoos, piercings, and/or weird hairdos with hair dyed in unnatural colors. What in the world happened to us? So sad.
Thank you Sarah, for expressing your thoughts on this topic. As with all your posts, it is well thought out and written so very well. Often at Mass I am amazed at how some people are dressed as they approach the altar to receive Holy Communion. Not only are many of the young women dressed immodestly but many men are wearing shorts or cut-off jeans and t-shirts as you so correctly pointed out. It is so irreverent and sadly these people don't seem to care how they look. I for one appreciate the women who wear veils as a sign of respect and reverence for the Holy Eucharist and the intention of the Mass.
So many elders refuse to understand the statement "what you wear (to church) says something about what you believe" would a meeting at the White House or State House dictate dress ..?of course. Would you dress 'appropriately' for your daughter's wedding or your mum's funeral ... of course. But to meet the King each Lord's day has no significance ... ?
Forgive me for talking so much but it really is an important topic believe me.
As I said before I follow you on YT for a very long time, and believe me if you presented there yourself as a " Western sex object" as you refer that wouldn't change a bit how I view yourself knowing your analysis, trust me.
I view you as a very strong/inteligent person but i'm afraid you might gradualy get stuck in the religious swamp mind set.
We all have a physical and psychological side, enhancing or diminishing the physical one (the looks) doesn't diminish or enhance the other ( the intelectual) it just serves as a beacon (or not) and that's nothing wrong in Nature with that.
With charity, I think it's difficult for us to communicate about this topic because we come from such a vastly different viewpoint. Please permit me to try.
I think you present a false dichotomy because you see Islamic dress of women and modernity's dress of women to be opposites. I see them as similar. Both of them reduce a woman's value to that of a sex object. In modernity's lack of modesty, the woman maximally shows her skin and presents herself in sexual ways because that is what is seen as her value. In Islam, the woman is covered from head to toe and hidden from the world because she is sex object, but only for her husband.
The appropriate and modest attire recognizes that she has an innate dignity and that she should be respected as a human being made in the image and likeness of God. Thus, the clothing neither seeks to hide her completely nor to efface her dignity.
To help the analysis I'll give you a concrete example Ann Coulter.
She doesn't hide her physical attributes in clothing by wearing short miniskirts. Does she looks as a sex object?isn't it a beacon to discover her personality better by reading what she has to say?
IMO is a very inteligent strategy that just shows how strong she really is, and powerful men ( example Trump) are really afraid of those kind of women that in the past were burnt as witches by your Catholic piers.
Both of them reduce a woman's value to that of a sex object.
"
I disagree the " Islamic way" makes a woman a non person in the street, the "Western way" makes her empowered, is like a beacon, It doesn't say " it's easy to sleep with me" It says " I'm here pretty, and good looking".
It's impossible to know a person's character before talking or some kind of 2 way communication, so looking like a " sex object" Is just religious talking.
My main point is, as modern religions (judaism, islam, Christianity) were mainly design to reflect the power structure in those societies mostly patriarchies, it's easy to understand that beauty is one of the most powerful weapon of women in general so religions tried to subdue that power by hiding it.
It's not by mistake that they declare that Eve was the guilty one by making Adam eat the forbidden fruit. So the power of Eve (beauty) must be subdued.
Yes It's not an easy topic, but let me tell that seeing another human being as a sex object or not is in the eye of the beholder.
Not so long ago, the women dressing in rural Western europe, especially Catholic countries, was not so different from the islamic one, and i'm not talking about burkas but veils, and the dark color of clothing in general. A woman showing her knees in those times was morally worse than seeing a woman in a miniskirt or even topless now.
I wish we never go back to those times again, when a woman had to think 1000 times before choosing her clothes with fear of being perceived as a slut.
As I said i'm a non believer, but I suppose that judging a person mainly by what he/she wears should be a sin.
I agree with you Sarah! I believe we should ware our best in the Lord’s House! To be honest I sometimes battle with the flesh even at worship services ! It seems many people don’t have the focus on what God’s word says and to be in this world but to be set apart from it! I to must remember the renewing of my mind by His words is paramount!
Such truth! In my past, I was engulfed in Satan's snares with all this immodest dress and lusting after the bodily attributes of females. It was not until I came to understand these snares of Satan did I have a change in perspective. Before, I acted akin to a feral alley dog, looking to fornicate with anything I found physically attractive. Now, I still have physical desires, but my past inclinations are no longer the focus.
God tells us He wants women to dress modestly - which is clearly NOT of this world. But, those in Christ (born anew) are not of this world.
1 John 2:15 Love not this world, neither the things that are in this world. If any man love this world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in this world, (as the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life) is not of the Father, but is of this world. 17 And this world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that fulfilleth the will of God, abideth ever.
1 Timothy 2:8 I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. 9 In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; 10 but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. 11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. 12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: 15 but she shall be saved through [d]her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.
Sarah, this is a difficult topic for discussion because it puts people on the defensive before the first sentence about modesty is even uttered. You did a great job putting it all in proper context. I and my family wear our "Sunday best" to church each Sunday because it is part of our worship of God. We are not showing off or trying to look good for other attendees. We want God to know that we love, honor, and respect Him. He gave us this earth and our very lives. The least we can do is dress appropriately as we worship Him. Secondly, your words concerning bathing suits and other day-to-day apparel is right on the mark. I love to see beautiful women who dress modestly. There is an air of mystery associated with clean and modest clothing. Otherwise, they are just advertising themselves, as you pointed out. There is so much in our modern lives that is vulgar and animalistic. When I grew up in the 70s and 80s, you would almost never see young women with tattoos, piercings, and/or weird hairdos with hair dyed in unnatural colors. What in the world happened to us? So sad.
Thank you Sarah, for expressing your thoughts on this topic. As with all your posts, it is well thought out and written so very well. Often at Mass I am amazed at how some people are dressed as they approach the altar to receive Holy Communion. Not only are many of the young women dressed immodestly but many men are wearing shorts or cut-off jeans and t-shirts as you so correctly pointed out. It is so irreverent and sadly these people don't seem to care how they look. I for one appreciate the women who wear veils as a sign of respect and reverence for the Holy Eucharist and the intention of the Mass.
So many elders refuse to understand the statement "what you wear (to church) says something about what you believe" would a meeting at the White House or State House dictate dress ..?of course. Would you dress 'appropriately' for your daughter's wedding or your mum's funeral ... of course. But to meet the King each Lord's day has no significance ... ?
True blasphemy actually ...
Just check the vídeo "legs" from ZZTOP and tell if you would prefer the main character as she was in the beggining or in the end of the story...
You are quite right , these people are exposing themselves which would indicate to me that they have a low self esteem of themselves.
I preferer when females leave a lot to the imagination by being clothed appropriately, I find them much more alluring.
I can only assume I have come from a different era and have different values than those of the 21st Century.
Love you Sister!! Sharing this with everyone on Telegram so they will know about your channel here as well!!
Forgive me for talking so much but it really is an important topic believe me.
As I said before I follow you on YT for a very long time, and believe me if you presented there yourself as a " Western sex object" as you refer that wouldn't change a bit how I view yourself knowing your analysis, trust me.
I view you as a very strong/inteligent person but i'm afraid you might gradualy get stuck in the religious swamp mind set.
We all have a physical and psychological side, enhancing or diminishing the physical one (the looks) doesn't diminish or enhance the other ( the intelectual) it just serves as a beacon (or not) and that's nothing wrong in Nature with that.
I'm not religious.
I ask you all, what do you think of women clothing in islam? Do you prefer that, or modern Western style women clothing?
Do you really believe that islamic women are better because of that?
With charity, I think it's difficult for us to communicate about this topic because we come from such a vastly different viewpoint. Please permit me to try.
I think you present a false dichotomy because you see Islamic dress of women and modernity's dress of women to be opposites. I see them as similar. Both of them reduce a woman's value to that of a sex object. In modernity's lack of modesty, the woman maximally shows her skin and presents herself in sexual ways because that is what is seen as her value. In Islam, the woman is covered from head to toe and hidden from the world because she is sex object, but only for her husband.
The appropriate and modest attire recognizes that she has an innate dignity and that she should be respected as a human being made in the image and likeness of God. Thus, the clothing neither seeks to hide her completely nor to efface her dignity.
To help the analysis I'll give you a concrete example Ann Coulter.
She doesn't hide her physical attributes in clothing by wearing short miniskirts. Does she looks as a sex object?isn't it a beacon to discover her personality better by reading what she has to say?
IMO is a very inteligent strategy that just shows how strong she really is, and powerful men ( example Trump) are really afraid of those kind of women that in the past were burnt as witches by your Catholic piers.
"
Both of them reduce a woman's value to that of a sex object.
"
I disagree the " Islamic way" makes a woman a non person in the street, the "Western way" makes her empowered, is like a beacon, It doesn't say " it's easy to sleep with me" It says " I'm here pretty, and good looking".
It's impossible to know a person's character before talking or some kind of 2 way communication, so looking like a " sex object" Is just religious talking.
Religions are obsessed with sex.
My main point is, as modern religions (judaism, islam, Christianity) were mainly design to reflect the power structure in those societies mostly patriarchies, it's easy to understand that beauty is one of the most powerful weapon of women in general so religions tried to subdue that power by hiding it.
It's not by mistake that they declare that Eve was the guilty one by making Adam eat the forbidden fruit. So the power of Eve (beauty) must be subdued.
Yes It's not an easy topic, but let me tell that seeing another human being as a sex object or not is in the eye of the beholder.
Not so long ago, the women dressing in rural Western europe, especially Catholic countries, was not so different from the islamic one, and i'm not talking about burkas but veils, and the dark color of clothing in general. A woman showing her knees in those times was morally worse than seeing a woman in a miniskirt or even topless now.
I wish we never go back to those times again, when a woman had to think 1000 times before choosing her clothes with fear of being perceived as a slut.
As I said i'm a non believer, but I suppose that judging a person mainly by what he/she wears should be a sin.
I agree with you Sarah! I believe we should ware our best in the Lord’s House! To be honest I sometimes battle with the flesh even at worship services ! It seems many people don’t have the focus on what God’s word says and to be in this world but to be set apart from it! I to must remember the renewing of my mind by His words is paramount!
Such truth! In my past, I was engulfed in Satan's snares with all this immodest dress and lusting after the bodily attributes of females. It was not until I came to understand these snares of Satan did I have a change in perspective. Before, I acted akin to a feral alley dog, looking to fornicate with anything I found physically attractive. Now, I still have physical desires, but my past inclinations are no longer the focus.
God tells us He wants women to dress modestly - which is clearly NOT of this world. But, those in Christ (born anew) are not of this world.
1 John 2:15 Love not this world, neither the things that are in this world. If any man love this world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in this world, (as the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life) is not of the Father, but is of this world. 17 And this world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that fulfilleth the will of God, abideth ever.
1 Timothy 2:8 I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. 9 In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; 10 but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. 11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. 12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: 15 but she shall be saved through [d]her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.
God tells you...