Christians increasingly find themselves in dangerous waters due to unjust laws that restrict their ability to live the Faith or preach the truth. Law does not make something moral, as some imply. In fact, there are some laws that Christians cannot obey.
In Rasanen's case, her civil disobedience is not only her right, it is her duty. Both St. Augustine and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1902-3) support this.
The refrain will be, "You can't use your religion to discriminate" and the real danger will be the application of existing laws to us which will be unjust rather than the laws themselves. Of course once words ( "offence / discrimination) get defined as actual violence then there will be a raft of existing assault laws which will be brought to bear upon us.
Those who live in Common Law countries are in a much better position, as moral Christian values do not clash with it.
A basic principle of Common Law is the right to reject Statues and find the person not guilty regardless of the circumstances or evidence. This is why Judges dislike Juries.
The fudemental position of Common Law is do not injure your fellow man.
There are plenty of Bible quotes that agree with this principle.
Speaking of obedience to the State -- you might very well wish to see the documentary "The Essential Church". It is produced by Grace Productions, a ministry of Grace Community Church, John MacArthur, Senior Pastor. It documents churches in the US & Canada that refused to comply with Covid-19 lockdown mandates -- and related Biblical teaching.
[As of this writing, I believe it is available at the SalemNow website, to rent or buy.]
In chapter 5, of the Book of the Acts, Peter (et.al.) were "strictly charged" by the High Priest and ruling council to not teach in the Name of Jesus. Then, in Acts 5:29 -- Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."
(I guess Paul hadn't written Romans 13 yet) Good thing they dis-obeyed!
Being Catholic, I've experienced everything from hate to derision. The worst are the questions of 'why do you worship Mary and all the Saints?' 'Jesus meant eating His flesh and drinking His blood symbolically'. I've just stopped trying to explain.
Another point is that by insisting that loyalty to a king or government come before loyalty to God, the King or Government is intending to become God.
Lastly, Jesus told his disciple to forgive 77 times. I believe we have reached that number.
Kudos for a thoughtful response to an inane comment.
To say 'Render unto Caesar what is Caesars' does not mean that Caesar was a good guy and we should support him. This is earth, not Heaven. Bad rulers and bad laws are numerous, but should not be obeyed if we can't get away with flouting them.
As the 1st commandment says, our allegiance is always and above all to God. No law of men changes that.
In Finland, it is claimed that 78 percent of the population is Lutheran. But most Finns reject the church's leadership because of its devaluation of christian principles over Islam. "On 2 September, the head of the Finnish Lutheran Church, Archbishop Kari Makinen, urged members to take in refugees.
Soon after, 196 people resigned from the Church in one day, compared to 80 people on a typical day.
"As the Finnish Church wants to help house IS fighters in Finland, I do not accept it," one person wrote on a website through which members can resign. "The Church no longer defends Christian values, they support Islam's entry into Finland. Shame on you fools," wrote another." Recently a Deputy Prime Minister, wrote on his blog last that Christian and Yazidi minorities could be given priority as refugees in hopes of reducing the expanding crime that Finland is experiencing from their new immigrants. Several days later he took it off of his site after experiencing similar comments that were the basis of this post.
It’s the what is legal/moral question all over again, as you discuss elsewhere.
In BC, Canada it was legal to require ‘papers’ if you wanted regular occupancy at a Christmas Eve service, for example (2021). How that could possibly be moral is beyond me. Yet accepted by many sincere, deceived Christians.
The present conflict in the Catholic Church between the clergy and the Pope (and his Vatican) is an example of the division of loyalty you have discussed here. The apparent socialist drift of the hierarchy is leading to the silencing of those who feel their first loyalty is to God and not the Vatican. A most dangerous path for any who profess to be Christian.
I’m more concerned with the laws of Yahweh being upheld. If they were we wouldn’t have such issues. His laws are forever and not just for a certain class of people. His appointed times are forever. Sabbath’s are forever and the time we set to focus of Him. Christian’s are so proud they tithe(sone is because they see a blessing from it) but they don’t keep one day out of 7 He made and He set a day in place for us to be with Him.
In Rasanen's case, her civil disobedience is not only her right, it is her duty. Both St. Augustine and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1902-3) support this.
The refrain will be, "You can't use your religion to discriminate" and the real danger will be the application of existing laws to us which will be unjust rather than the laws themselves. Of course once words ( "offence / discrimination) get defined as actual violence then there will be a raft of existing assault laws which will be brought to bear upon us.
Such bracing words regarding that “mound of martyrs”.
Sanguis martyrum est semen Christianorum.
“The blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church!” - Tertullian
Unfortunately Finland operates under Roman Law.
Those who live in Common Law countries are in a much better position, as moral Christian values do not clash with it.
A basic principle of Common Law is the right to reject Statues and find the person not guilty regardless of the circumstances or evidence. This is why Judges dislike Juries.
The fudemental position of Common Law is do not injure your fellow man.
There are plenty of Bible quotes that agree with this principle.
Speaking of obedience to the State -- you might very well wish to see the documentary "The Essential Church". It is produced by Grace Productions, a ministry of Grace Community Church, John MacArthur, Senior Pastor. It documents churches in the US & Canada that refused to comply with Covid-19 lockdown mandates -- and related Biblical teaching.
[As of this writing, I believe it is available at the SalemNow website, to rent or buy.]
In chapter 5, of the Book of the Acts, Peter (et.al.) were "strictly charged" by the High Priest and ruling council to not teach in the Name of Jesus. Then, in Acts 5:29 -- Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."
(I guess Paul hadn't written Romans 13 yet) Good thing they dis-obeyed!
Being Catholic, I've experienced everything from hate to derision. The worst are the questions of 'why do you worship Mary and all the Saints?' 'Jesus meant eating His flesh and drinking His blood symbolically'. I've just stopped trying to explain.
Another point is that by insisting that loyalty to a king or government come before loyalty to God, the King or Government is intending to become God.
Lastly, Jesus told his disciple to forgive 77 times. I believe we have reached that number.
Kudos for a thoughtful response to an inane comment.
To say 'Render unto Caesar what is Caesars' does not mean that Caesar was a good guy and we should support him. This is earth, not Heaven. Bad rulers and bad laws are numerous, but should not be obeyed if we can't get away with flouting them.
As the 1st commandment says, our allegiance is always and above all to God. No law of men changes that.
In Finland, it is claimed that 78 percent of the population is Lutheran. But most Finns reject the church's leadership because of its devaluation of christian principles over Islam. "On 2 September, the head of the Finnish Lutheran Church, Archbishop Kari Makinen, urged members to take in refugees.
Soon after, 196 people resigned from the Church in one day, compared to 80 people on a typical day.
"As the Finnish Church wants to help house IS fighters in Finland, I do not accept it," one person wrote on a website through which members can resign. "The Church no longer defends Christian values, they support Islam's entry into Finland. Shame on you fools," wrote another." Recently a Deputy Prime Minister, wrote on his blog last that Christian and Yazidi minorities could be given priority as refugees in hopes of reducing the expanding crime that Finland is experiencing from their new immigrants. Several days later he took it off of his site after experiencing similar comments that were the basis of this post.
It’s the what is legal/moral question all over again, as you discuss elsewhere.
In BC, Canada it was legal to require ‘papers’ if you wanted regular occupancy at a Christmas Eve service, for example (2021). How that could possibly be moral is beyond me. Yet accepted by many sincere, deceived Christians.
The present conflict in the Catholic Church between the clergy and the Pope (and his Vatican) is an example of the division of loyalty you have discussed here. The apparent socialist drift of the hierarchy is leading to the silencing of those who feel their first loyalty is to God and not the Vatican. A most dangerous path for any who profess to be Christian.
I’m more concerned with the laws of Yahweh being upheld. If they were we wouldn’t have such issues. His laws are forever and not just for a certain class of people. His appointed times are forever. Sabbath’s are forever and the time we set to focus of Him. Christian’s are so proud they tithe(sone is because they see a blessing from it) but they don’t keep one day out of 7 He made and He set a day in place for us to be with Him.