I do take the gospels as scripture - I should have clarified that. But I stand by my opinion of Paul. It's a stretch to say that Paul's comment in 1 Corinthian 11 (not 7) does not contradict Genesis. He differentiates between man and woman thus: ("he (man) IS the image and glory of God") "BUT woman is the glory of man." No one is saying …
I do take the gospels as scripture - I should have clarified that. But I stand by my opinion of Paul. It's a stretch to say that Paul's comment in 1 Corinthian 11 (not 7) does not contradict Genesis. He differentiates between man and woman thus: ("he (man) IS the image and glory of God") "BUT woman is the glory of man." No one is saying they're not equal in value before God, but Paul's statement implies that woman was not created directly in God's image, but indirectly in man's.
His statement about man not made from woman, but woman from man entails a literal interpretation of Genesis that God took a rib from Adam, and fashioned a woman. If you want to take that literally, more power to you. I believe it's truth, but is speaking in spiritual language. I also disagree with Paul's statement that man was not created for woman, but woman was created for man. That statement also is drawn from the Adam's rib story.
I've read the Bible many times through. All scripture is Divine (God's Word), but not everything in the Bible is scripture.
Just because Paul (again inspired by God) states woman is the glory of man doesn't = woman was not created in the image of God. One statement doesn't discount the other. Can't woman be the glory of man and STILL be made in the image of God? This is interjecting things that aren't there. Trebor, do you discount Acts, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John and Jude? What about Hebrews? You just said "all scripture is God's Word", but then say not everything is Scripture? Why do you choose to think Paul's epistles are not divine but not others? Is it just because there are things you disagree with? What about Moses?
Here's Peter: 1 Peter 3 "Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see your reverent and chaste behavior. 3 Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing, 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. 5 So once the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves and were submissive to their husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are now her children if you do right and let nothing terrify you.
7 Likewise you husbands, live considerately with your wives, bestowing honor on the woman as the weaker sex, since you are joint heirs of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered."
I'm guessing you don't agree with that, so this must not be "scripture" but just opinion from Peter? See how this works? You either believe all or none. Where do you draw the line on what to follow and not? Does that depend upon YOUR opinion, flesh or ego?
Everything in the Bible has value, regardless of parts of a letter to the different churches asking to bring Paul something or stating he plans to visit or letting us know all his tribulations or travails while spreading the gospel - he was writing letters - 13 of them, which are 13 books in the New Testament. Paul telling them he hopes to visit or to please bring him something does not = all the rest is NOT inspired by God or not worthy of us following or obeying. Perhaps that's you trying to justify the parts you don't agree with or don't like.
The fact that you don't think the creation story is all literal sounds more like you are letting the fleshly desires of this world lead you rather than the spirit - making it a more personal disagreement and then you can ignore the parts you don't like by stating its not literal or just Paul's own opinion.
Do you believe God formed man first? Do you believe he made the animals for man to be a helper/companion? Do you believe God saw those weren't a good enough helper, so He made woman? Do you believe that God created ALL things? The entire story of creating the woman is detailed so how would it NOT be literal Trebor? Genesis 2:21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 22 and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said,
“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.
Woman was made FROM man and woman WAS made FOR man. If you are somehow bothered by this, then again you need to look to God and see if you are truly following Him or living for this world. What about the 10 Commandments, the moral law, which shows us all we are sinners and that is the reason we die? Eve sinned first and then Adam by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil - they disobeyed God and from that point on they were cursed with death. All of humanity are sinners and that is why we all die. God is paying us in wages for our sin and the wage is death. "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23 Christ took OUR rightful punishment on the cross, so we could live, and then rose from the dead, defeating death showing us we can defeat death as well but, we must repent and put our faith in Him alone.
Have you been made a new creation in Christ Trevor, have you been born again and repented? John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
1 Peter 1:23 Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Luke 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”
Greetings. In short, when I say something isn't Scripture, I'm not saying it isn't true or good or lacks value. I'm just differentiating between kinds or styles or qualities of Biblical writings. For example, I read the Proverbs daily, they are full of profound and important wisdom for living, and they are true, but I don't consider them to be Scripture.
I want to give a clear example of a statement by Paul that is not scripture. That would be 2 Timothy 4:13. "When you come, bring the cloak I left with Carpus at Traos, and my scrolls...". This is clearly not God's Word. It's different from every word spoken by the Prophets, from the Gospels, and from Revelation.
I do take the gospels as scripture - I should have clarified that. But I stand by my opinion of Paul. It's a stretch to say that Paul's comment in 1 Corinthian 11 (not 7) does not contradict Genesis. He differentiates between man and woman thus: ("he (man) IS the image and glory of God") "BUT woman is the glory of man." No one is saying they're not equal in value before God, but Paul's statement implies that woman was not created directly in God's image, but indirectly in man's.
His statement about man not made from woman, but woman from man entails a literal interpretation of Genesis that God took a rib from Adam, and fashioned a woman. If you want to take that literally, more power to you. I believe it's truth, but is speaking in spiritual language. I also disagree with Paul's statement that man was not created for woman, but woman was created for man. That statement also is drawn from the Adam's rib story.
I've read the Bible many times through. All scripture is Divine (God's Word), but not everything in the Bible is scripture.
Just because Paul (again inspired by God) states woman is the glory of man doesn't = woman was not created in the image of God. One statement doesn't discount the other. Can't woman be the glory of man and STILL be made in the image of God? This is interjecting things that aren't there. Trebor, do you discount Acts, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John and Jude? What about Hebrews? You just said "all scripture is God's Word", but then say not everything is Scripture? Why do you choose to think Paul's epistles are not divine but not others? Is it just because there are things you disagree with? What about Moses?
Here's Peter: 1 Peter 3 "Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see your reverent and chaste behavior. 3 Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing, 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. 5 So once the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves and were submissive to their husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are now her children if you do right and let nothing terrify you.
7 Likewise you husbands, live considerately with your wives, bestowing honor on the woman as the weaker sex, since you are joint heirs of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered."
I'm guessing you don't agree with that, so this must not be "scripture" but just opinion from Peter? See how this works? You either believe all or none. Where do you draw the line on what to follow and not? Does that depend upon YOUR opinion, flesh or ego?
Everything in the Bible has value, regardless of parts of a letter to the different churches asking to bring Paul something or stating he plans to visit or letting us know all his tribulations or travails while spreading the gospel - he was writing letters - 13 of them, which are 13 books in the New Testament. Paul telling them he hopes to visit or to please bring him something does not = all the rest is NOT inspired by God or not worthy of us following or obeying. Perhaps that's you trying to justify the parts you don't agree with or don't like.
The fact that you don't think the creation story is all literal sounds more like you are letting the fleshly desires of this world lead you rather than the spirit - making it a more personal disagreement and then you can ignore the parts you don't like by stating its not literal or just Paul's own opinion.
Do you believe God formed man first? Do you believe he made the animals for man to be a helper/companion? Do you believe God saw those weren't a good enough helper, so He made woman? Do you believe that God created ALL things? The entire story of creating the woman is detailed so how would it NOT be literal Trebor? Genesis 2:21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 22 and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said,
“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.
Woman was made FROM man and woman WAS made FOR man. If you are somehow bothered by this, then again you need to look to God and see if you are truly following Him or living for this world. What about the 10 Commandments, the moral law, which shows us all we are sinners and that is the reason we die? Eve sinned first and then Adam by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil - they disobeyed God and from that point on they were cursed with death. All of humanity are sinners and that is why we all die. God is paying us in wages for our sin and the wage is death. "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23 Christ took OUR rightful punishment on the cross, so we could live, and then rose from the dead, defeating death showing us we can defeat death as well but, we must repent and put our faith in Him alone.
Have you been made a new creation in Christ Trevor, have you been born again and repented? John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
1 Peter 1:23 Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Luke 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”
Greetings. In short, when I say something isn't Scripture, I'm not saying it isn't true or good or lacks value. I'm just differentiating between kinds or styles or qualities of Biblical writings. For example, I read the Proverbs daily, they are full of profound and important wisdom for living, and they are true, but I don't consider them to be Scripture.
I want to give a clear example of a statement by Paul that is not scripture. That would be 2 Timothy 4:13. "When you come, bring the cloak I left with Carpus at Traos, and my scrolls...". This is clearly not God's Word. It's different from every word spoken by the Prophets, from the Gospels, and from Revelation.