In the suffocation of grief, when we search for memories and light amongst what seems far too dim and isolated, we might find those who have passed on to be beacons to our home.
It sounds like you lost someone close to you. May I offer my condolences for your loss. Thank you for sharing as we can all relate to this feeling of loss.
Sarah - this was beautifully written. Having so recently experienced the grief of our dear friend who passed has brought your words into my reality. The void of his physical presence is very real and even more poignant when I see his wife at Mass without him by her side. But I do take comfort when reflecting on his life while on earth and it inspires me in so many ways to amend those areas of my life that are keeping me from a deeper relationship with God. You are a source of inspiration to us as well and I pray that God will continue to strengthen and bless all that you do and all that you stand for.
Where do we go from here? A question just about everybody asks. There is that question of faith, and there is that question of how do you even know if you're good anyways? I hesitate to say I know, because in reality I do not. The people around me are difficult to measure, perhaps I shouldn't.
Mortality is there, but I am here. They have gone, I have survived, but somehow, I cannot say if I go where they have gone. I am Dismas, all I know is that I feel they don't deserve their fate, as they may have been better than I, and they and their gifts are leaving us. What cause do I have to be here? And they are not? But, if I am Dismas, my time is also short, and no matter where I go, somehow it would be nice if some soul who knew better than me knew something of me, even for one moment, remember me when you get there, will you?
Staring out, waiting for my own end, not really sure where I am going, whoever you are, you seem like you know, and I do not. Remember me when you get there. You're sure to be ahead of me in line, and I'm sure there won't be room when I get there.
Remember me, when you get to where you're going---which you say, it's where you're from. Because I feel as my life went, I won't even know when or if I get there, or how I got there. All around me now, the people may mock you, but not I. I saw that you knew where you were going, and yet just a moment ago, we were suffering the same together. You seemed less inclined to let that suffering get you down, you even had enough energy left to give me a good word. Faith in me? I'm not entirely sure, but your faith is pretty clear. You know where you're going. No need to have any faith in me, I witnessed it, I called it like is, that is all, and that doesn't secure anyone's salvation. But I saw you, for that one moment, and you looked back. Maybe you truly did know, and I probably didn't, but you had a good word for me, that's how I know.
Dismas didn't need a reminder of mortality. He was well on his way and he knew it. Moments away, really, looking up at thet other... convict... next to him. I don't know, maybe you are who they say you are, and I guess my fate is my fate, but it seems not right for you, but what can I do? Like many probably, the better of us all is treated the same as the rest of us, worse sometimes. If there's One above even you, loss isn't in my thoughts, it's about how I feel that you've been treated unjustly. I don't know if I've been treated justly or unjustly, too much loss to measure that. But you, no, you didn't deserve this, but there you are. Shining.
Remember me when you get there, for I've always known I am nothing, and there's nothing I can do, except one little thing.... I won't join in with Gestas. Maybe it's the only thing I'm sure of. I won't join in with the crowd, they're simply being a mindless herd. For a single moment, I know, I'm not Christ, but perhaps I did get to see him on that cross, for a few seconds, and perhaps for those few seconds, since I could be the last one with him, maybe by watching I can learn something. I mean it's worth a try.
So when you get there remember me, will you? I mean nobody else up there probably does, or maybe nobody remembers because they never got there. What time do we have left? A few moments. I barely feel like I know what to do with those moments, but I'll keep looking, as it all went by, it sometimes seemed like it mattered, but what do I know. I ended up on a cross whether I liked it or not. I am Dismas. I am not Christ. But I am not Gestas, that I know. That may not be much, and that may be all I truly know. No need to feel sorry for me, but the humanity in this one single moment might be enough. I told you I don't know. Even at this moment, you turned to me with a good word, the only and the last good word I'll probably ever know. Maybe that's enough.
Be reasured, to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of God. No need of purgatory. Purgator is not anything described in the bibke. It contradicts tge work of Christ. There is no uneanted baggage left with Christ. Everyone who is born again is totally secure. No more laws to work through. no debts left to work off. No more getting prepaired Jesus did this in the second covenant. Christ will accomplish his work in us as we obey. There is no gulf for those who are in Christ.
I sympathize with the emotions woven into this post but my issue is Bible-based. If those departed were actually born again into the family of God through the operation of the Biblical Gospel (not the human doctrines associated with various “religions”) then they indeed “lived as saints” (saints only in the biblical sense rather than the temporal sense like those persons “elevated” to that status by human doctrines and rituals. (Cf., 1 Corinthians 16:1) and in point of Biblical fact, are already home in heaven. The believer and unbeliever alike who dies a physical death is immediately judged. “ And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.” Hebrews 9:27
There is simply no biblical foundation for any intermediate “place”—upon physical death we immediately stand before God’s judgment. Such doctrines are created by humans , usually because they are merely religious (some even devout and pious in terms of conforming to human created rituals) but have never fully surrendered themselves to Almighty God by belief in and total submission to the saving sacrifice of His Son, the Christ as clearly and unequivocally provided in the Biblical Gospel.
I have a great many acquaintances who labor under this false doctrine of their religion or denomination. The regard themselves as “good” and many do “good” things but none of that satisfies the simple Biblical Gospel.
As Romans 3:12 provides regarding those not born again:
“ 12 [They] have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
This passage and others of similar import make the point that “being good” and “doing good” on the eyes of the world is NOT equivalent to “being good” and “doing good” in the eyes of God.
The former, being solely the perception of fallible humans, cannot truly fathom and discern the motives of the person seen as “good.” The latter, however, is seen by Almighty God who knows all and also sees those of us who are born again believers as pure as the driven snow by virtue of the sacrificial blood shed by Christ to “cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (See 1 John 1:9).
I accept only the Bible as God’s authoritative Word. The Apocrypha of course are not Scripture.
Of course no one is born again merely through the doing of “good works.” Paul emphasizes this repeatedly as the early churches were in cultures where merely “doing good” was seen as pleasing to their former gods.
This “work ethic” for being born again has mixed with the former American secular cousin work ethic (now largely gone) to cause continuing confusion as to exactly how one is “converted” into a Chridtian.
Many have gotten the cart before the horse in ghat “good works” (the real ones that God sees as worship to Him) comes AFTER one is born again. Most Americans, however, like many Paul was addressing in his epistles, have it backwards and think secular “good works” accomplish salvation.
While God will sift all of our “works” as believers, that has nothing to do with His seeing us as “pure.” That is solely a result of our believing in and accepting the Biblical Gospel so as to have Christ’s purity and righteousness imputed to us.
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away” (Matthew 24:35).
“I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18).
It is not a zero sum issue. Christ left both. And by “church” He did not leave any of the modern-day “churches” that may claim some special place in God’s economy.
As to what the “church” is, this is but one of many good references that summarize the biblical (rather than human religious doctrine) teaching:
Literally the canon wasn't chosen until the 4th Century when the Church council made their decision -- and those books that you describe as Apocryphal were in there. They remain in the Catholic Bible as part of the canon, as they have always been.
Others (Luther et al.) have included the Apocrypha for non-Scriptural background. The error comes when religions or denominations conflate it with Scripture.
We are in perilous times on every front, including especially and paramountly spiritually. Of course, while none of this is “new” in the sense that the spiritual war between Almighty God and satan ever since the latter’s fall from Heaven, it is apparently coming to a crescendo if the level of depravity, perversion and apostasy is any indication.
That is the main reason why it is so important that people hear the truth of the Scriptural (rather than the encrustations placed on it by religions, denominations and “nondenominational” churches) Gospel so they can fairly choose which path they take.
Sadly, as God tells us in Matthew 7 most will choose the world that includes the myriad religious traps of false “gospels:”
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
I comment here not to be argumentative but because I am constrained and impelled by God to speak His Truth given to us in His Word.
Anything that contradicts His Word, whether religious doctrine or not and whether or not well-intended, must give way. This point is lost on more and more “christian” churches that forget the parable of the rich young ruler. Jesus spelled out plainly what was required for the man to be one of His followers but the man could not let go of his worldly things. See Mt. 19:16-22
These worldly things today include the many sinful and perverse social issues (abortion, homosexuality, misgendering etc.) that more and more churches are avoiding , primarily out of concern they will offend and cause to leave (with their pocketbooks) their most “generous” demographic—50-60 year olds who have children/grandchildren who are involved in some way in these matters as millennials and Gen-zers.
Yes, there are many passages warning us as to the false hope of money and other worldly “assets” if they effectively become our idols in place of the one true God.
That is a very unchristian reply. Perhaps a better reply would be “perhaps you are on the wrong passage?” See how that works?
I am on a tractor bush hogging a field and could not see your post well.
As to verse 30 and following, I believe I understand quite well what the Scriptures tell us on the subject at hand, having done a number of studies on these points in the 50 years since I was born again.
I have also had the “benefit” of seeing first hand the things I speak of as I relocated many times in my 33 years’ as a Marine and had to find churches in each new place.
In any event, I post here to neither argue or insult anyone. Perhaps you might benefit from that approach as well.
What about a parent who was a very evil hypocrite? Dead from a heart attack many years ago. He terrorized me, my mother and brother, was selfish to the max, and when I had to return to Seattle to take care of some death details, I was given a box with his cremated ashes and promptly tossed them in the garbage. Good riddance to a blob of human debris.
CeeJ, as sad as your experience has been, this is not what the Crusader Gal is writing about here. She's writing about those of us who experience grief at the loss of a loved one.
I pray that if you have not already done so, that you allow the Holy Spirit to empower you to forgive your late father. Continuing hatred is like a cancer.
But you were able to throw away the ashes. What about those who abuse us and then shine in the spotlight all day long so we can’t avoid seeing them. Posters of Pohl Pot or Stalin for example?
God wants us to restore ourselves and come to forgiveness. Yes, even with Adolf Hitler and former Cardinal McCarrick. Perhaps just deflecting the feelings that arise from a trivial bit of humor like, “$5 dollars and a coke.”
But maybe accepting the Hollywood trash that promotes evil films that elevate ratboys into great narrative prophets of modernism.
Healing doesn’t start until you can both forgive and come to some understanding of what it would be like to live in the shoes of those you hate and blame, walk a mile in them, you might not have been able to do better if it was your place in life. If you can’t even consider that then pray for God to know your invincible ignorance is not sinful neglect.
Because God who sent His only begotten to die for our sins demands forgiveness. His Mercy requires it and it is only in accepting His Mercy that we may find forgiveness.
The scandal and evil goes on. Do what is possible to change it. But start first in your heart and open your mind to greater perspectives where forgiveness is possible. Don’t self help yourself into a false psyche that rejects the truth of God. Know God, know healing and know forgiveness.
It sounds like you lost someone close to you. May I offer my condolences for your loss. Thank you for sharing as we can all relate to this feeling of loss.
Sarah - this was beautifully written. Having so recently experienced the grief of our dear friend who passed has brought your words into my reality. The void of his physical presence is very real and even more poignant when I see his wife at Mass without him by her side. But I do take comfort when reflecting on his life while on earth and it inspires me in so many ways to amend those areas of my life that are keeping me from a deeper relationship with God. You are a source of inspiration to us as well and I pray that God will continue to strengthen and bless all that you do and all that you stand for.
A beautiful testament to a precious soul. My condolences.
The closing from a Catholic prayer for the dead:
“In company with Christ,
Who died and now lives,
may they rejoice in Your kingdom,
where all our tears are wiped away.
Unite us together again in one family,
to sing Your praise forever and ever.
Amen.”
It's good we have writers like Sarah!
Very well written and deep. Amazing the author apparently was an engineer by trade. Quite a diverse mind.
Where do we go from here? A question just about everybody asks. There is that question of faith, and there is that question of how do you even know if you're good anyways? I hesitate to say I know, because in reality I do not. The people around me are difficult to measure, perhaps I shouldn't.
Mortality is there, but I am here. They have gone, I have survived, but somehow, I cannot say if I go where they have gone. I am Dismas, all I know is that I feel they don't deserve their fate, as they may have been better than I, and they and their gifts are leaving us. What cause do I have to be here? And they are not? But, if I am Dismas, my time is also short, and no matter where I go, somehow it would be nice if some soul who knew better than me knew something of me, even for one moment, remember me when you get there, will you?
Staring out, waiting for my own end, not really sure where I am going, whoever you are, you seem like you know, and I do not. Remember me when you get there. You're sure to be ahead of me in line, and I'm sure there won't be room when I get there.
Remember me, when you get to where you're going---which you say, it's where you're from. Because I feel as my life went, I won't even know when or if I get there, or how I got there. All around me now, the people may mock you, but not I. I saw that you knew where you were going, and yet just a moment ago, we were suffering the same together. You seemed less inclined to let that suffering get you down, you even had enough energy left to give me a good word. Faith in me? I'm not entirely sure, but your faith is pretty clear. You know where you're going. No need to have any faith in me, I witnessed it, I called it like is, that is all, and that doesn't secure anyone's salvation. But I saw you, for that one moment, and you looked back. Maybe you truly did know, and I probably didn't, but you had a good word for me, that's how I know.
Dismas didn't need a reminder of mortality. He was well on his way and he knew it. Moments away, really, looking up at thet other... convict... next to him. I don't know, maybe you are who they say you are, and I guess my fate is my fate, but it seems not right for you, but what can I do? Like many probably, the better of us all is treated the same as the rest of us, worse sometimes. If there's One above even you, loss isn't in my thoughts, it's about how I feel that you've been treated unjustly. I don't know if I've been treated justly or unjustly, too much loss to measure that. But you, no, you didn't deserve this, but there you are. Shining.
Remember me when you get there, for I've always known I am nothing, and there's nothing I can do, except one little thing.... I won't join in with Gestas. Maybe it's the only thing I'm sure of. I won't join in with the crowd, they're simply being a mindless herd. For a single moment, I know, I'm not Christ, but perhaps I did get to see him on that cross, for a few seconds, and perhaps for those few seconds, since I could be the last one with him, maybe by watching I can learn something. I mean it's worth a try.
So when you get there remember me, will you? I mean nobody else up there probably does, or maybe nobody remembers because they never got there. What time do we have left? A few moments. I barely feel like I know what to do with those moments, but I'll keep looking, as it all went by, it sometimes seemed like it mattered, but what do I know. I ended up on a cross whether I liked it or not. I am Dismas. I am not Christ. But I am not Gestas, that I know. That may not be much, and that may be all I truly know. No need to feel sorry for me, but the humanity in this one single moment might be enough. I told you I don't know. Even at this moment, you turned to me with a good word, the only and the last good word I'll probably ever know. Maybe that's enough.
Remember me when you get there.
Beautifully written Sarah. I appreciate your thoughts and learning to focus on the rewards of eternity and live with achieving that goal for myself.
Be reasured, to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of God. No need of purgatory. Purgator is not anything described in the bibke. It contradicts tge work of Christ. There is no uneanted baggage left with Christ. Everyone who is born again is totally secure. No more laws to work through. no debts left to work off. No more getting prepaired Jesus did this in the second covenant. Christ will accomplish his work in us as we obey. There is no gulf for those who are in Christ.
can you hear me now
Yes, your comment posted
This is very good, Myself, I do not see clearly what the spirit world is like, but this world I now live in gives me a chance to do some good.
I sympathize with the emotions woven into this post but my issue is Bible-based. If those departed were actually born again into the family of God through the operation of the Biblical Gospel (not the human doctrines associated with various “religions”) then they indeed “lived as saints” (saints only in the biblical sense rather than the temporal sense like those persons “elevated” to that status by human doctrines and rituals. (Cf., 1 Corinthians 16:1) and in point of Biblical fact, are already home in heaven. The believer and unbeliever alike who dies a physical death is immediately judged. “ And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.” Hebrews 9:27
There is simply no biblical foundation for any intermediate “place”—upon physical death we immediately stand before God’s judgment. Such doctrines are created by humans , usually because they are merely religious (some even devout and pious in terms of conforming to human created rituals) but have never fully surrendered themselves to Almighty God by belief in and total submission to the saving sacrifice of His Son, the Christ as clearly and unequivocally provided in the Biblical Gospel.
I have a great many acquaintances who labor under this false doctrine of their religion or denomination. The regard themselves as “good” and many do “good” things but none of that satisfies the simple Biblical Gospel.
As Romans 3:12 provides regarding those not born again:
“ 12 [They] have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
This passage and others of similar import make the point that “being good” and “doing good” on the eyes of the world is NOT equivalent to “being good” and “doing good” in the eyes of God.
The former, being solely the perception of fallible humans, cannot truly fathom and discern the motives of the person seen as “good.” The latter, however, is seen by Almighty God who knows all and also sees those of us who are born again believers as pure as the driven snow by virtue of the sacrificial blood shed by Christ to “cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (See 1 John 1:9).
Jumpinjarhead, you clearly are one of those who will not accept the authenticity of the books of the Maccabees.
As for salvation for being good, or doing good, please see Matt. 25: 34-46.
I accept only the Bible as God’s authoritative Word. The Apocrypha of course are not Scripture.
Of course no one is born again merely through the doing of “good works.” Paul emphasizes this repeatedly as the early churches were in cultures where merely “doing good” was seen as pleasing to their former gods.
This “work ethic” for being born again has mixed with the former American secular cousin work ethic (now largely gone) to cause continuing confusion as to exactly how one is “converted” into a Chridtian.
Many have gotten the cart before the horse in ghat “good works” (the real ones that God sees as worship to Him) comes AFTER one is born again. Most Americans, however, like many Paul was addressing in his epistles, have it backwards and think secular “good works” accomplish salvation.
While God will sift all of our “works” as believers, that has nothing to do with His seeing us as “pure.” That is solely a result of our believing in and accepting the Biblical Gospel so as to have Christ’s purity and righteousness imputed to us.
Christ left us a Church, not a Bible. That Church assembled the Bible, which includes the books that you now reject.
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away” (Matthew 24:35).
“I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18).
It is not a zero sum issue. Christ left both. And by “church” He did not leave any of the modern-day “churches” that may claim some special place in God’s economy.
As to what the “church” is, this is but one of many good references that summarize the biblical (rather than human religious doctrine) teaching:
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-1-what-church-various-scriptures
Literally the canon wasn't chosen until the 4th Century when the Church council made their decision -- and those books that you describe as Apocryphal were in there. They remain in the Catholic Bible as part of the canon, as they have always been.
Others (Luther et al.) have included the Apocrypha for non-Scriptural background. The error comes when religions or denominations conflate it with Scripture.
We are in perilous times on every front, including especially and paramountly spiritually. Of course, while none of this is “new” in the sense that the spiritual war between Almighty God and satan ever since the latter’s fall from Heaven, it is apparently coming to a crescendo if the level of depravity, perversion and apostasy is any indication.
That is the main reason why it is so important that people hear the truth of the Scriptural (rather than the encrustations placed on it by religions, denominations and “nondenominational” churches) Gospel so they can fairly choose which path they take.
Sadly, as God tells us in Matthew 7 most will choose the world that includes the myriad religious traps of false “gospels:”
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
I comment here not to be argumentative but because I am constrained and impelled by God to speak His Truth given to us in His Word.
Anything that contradicts His Word, whether religious doctrine or not and whether or not well-intended, must give way. This point is lost on more and more “christian” churches that forget the parable of the rich young ruler. Jesus spelled out plainly what was required for the man to be one of His followers but the man could not let go of his worldly things. See Mt. 19:16-22
These worldly things today include the many sinful and perverse social issues (abortion, homosexuality, misgendering etc.) that more and more churches are avoiding , primarily out of concern they will offend and cause to leave (with their pocketbooks) their most “generous” demographic—50-60 year olds who have children/grandchildren who are involved in some way in these matters as millennials and Gen-zers.
You could try Acts 8: 30-31.
Yes, there are many passages warning us as to the false hope of money and other worldly “assets” if they effectively become our idols in place of the one true God.
It seems you are reading some other passage. Perhaps that offers some explanation as to how you have become so mixed up re Christ's Church.
That is a very unchristian reply. Perhaps a better reply would be “perhaps you are on the wrong passage?” See how that works?
I am on a tractor bush hogging a field and could not see your post well.
As to verse 30 and following, I believe I understand quite well what the Scriptures tell us on the subject at hand, having done a number of studies on these points in the 50 years since I was born again.
I have also had the “benefit” of seeing first hand the things I speak of as I relocated many times in my 33 years’ as a Marine and had to find churches in each new place.
In any event, I post here to neither argue or insult anyone. Perhaps you might benefit from that approach as well.
Beautifully expressed Sarah. God bless.
What about a parent who was a very evil hypocrite? Dead from a heart attack many years ago. He terrorized me, my mother and brother, was selfish to the max, and when I had to return to Seattle to take care of some death details, I was given a box with his cremated ashes and promptly tossed them in the garbage. Good riddance to a blob of human debris.
CeeJ, as sad as your experience has been, this is not what the Crusader Gal is writing about here. She's writing about those of us who experience grief at the loss of a loved one.
I pray that if you have not already done so, that you allow the Holy Spirit to empower you to forgive your late father. Continuing hatred is like a cancer.
But you were able to throw away the ashes. What about those who abuse us and then shine in the spotlight all day long so we can’t avoid seeing them. Posters of Pohl Pot or Stalin for example?
God wants us to restore ourselves and come to forgiveness. Yes, even with Adolf Hitler and former Cardinal McCarrick. Perhaps just deflecting the feelings that arise from a trivial bit of humor like, “$5 dollars and a coke.”
But maybe accepting the Hollywood trash that promotes evil films that elevate ratboys into great narrative prophets of modernism.
Healing doesn’t start until you can both forgive and come to some understanding of what it would be like to live in the shoes of those you hate and blame, walk a mile in them, you might not have been able to do better if it was your place in life. If you can’t even consider that then pray for God to know your invincible ignorance is not sinful neglect.
Because God who sent His only begotten to die for our sins demands forgiveness. His Mercy requires it and it is only in accepting His Mercy that we may find forgiveness.
The scandal and evil goes on. Do what is possible to change it. But start first in your heart and open your mind to greater perspectives where forgiveness is possible. Don’t self help yourself into a false psyche that rejects the truth of God. Know God, know healing and know forgiveness.